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Dear ppl who asks others to draw for 'exposure': by Qinni Dear ppl who asks others to draw for 'exposure': by Qinni
on my tumblr.

Edit: for actually industry pricing for freelancers and graphic artists, this is a good book to refer to:  The Graphic Artist’s Guild Handbook i have freelance friends who use this book and say it's really good, so....yeah, it's probably a good investment if you're starting out. i totally forgot about it before i saw that tumblr post, sorry~!)

for anyone still thinking it's okay to underpay or not pay artists because they're "new", please take a look at this.

Some excerpts include (quotes are the excerpts, comments are mine):
"simple illustration - Ext. Budget $5.00" - meaning that even if you spend 1 hour on a simple but finished, professional illustration, you'd only be making $5.00/hour.
"Children's Book Cover Illustration - 2 illustrations that are 18x18x in full colour; Est. Budget $25" - so even if you spend a very short 2.5 hours per cover painting, you're still getting paid $5.00/hour. But realistically we all know full-colour illustrations take longer than that so let's not kid ourselves and price it at $2.00/hour. Slave labor ftw :dummy:
"Cartoon Children's Illustrator - $70.00" - oh, that doesn't look ba- oh wait... "19 pages full colour plus cover." ....20 illustrations for $70, making it an average of $3.50 per illustration. awesome.

here's some more links: 
"A Note to you Should you be thinking of asking me to write for you for free"
"no spec work!"


I know I wrote a little much, but if you have time, please read :).

I feel like this is important because this whole attitude is the same that lets people steal other people's art and print it on phone cases, posters, tshirts and more. They don't view us as hard-working people but more like machines that just churn out art. Not to mention it kind of screws the whole industry value up....(like, why would they pay for you to draw anything if someone else can do it for free?). This means the whole market value of art goes way down. It also let's people feel like they have the right to cuss me out when I refuse.....

This was originally done because I saw ridiculous people comment on tumblr and drawing ridiculous comic response is a way I cope, but then I realized that there are more of these people on dA; in fact, I often get notes about doing projects for free because of possible "exposure" i would get (not to mention those contests that hardly pays the winner anything to design a t-shirt or whatnot), and I'm sure I'm not the only one. 

Some people don’t feel artists deserve compensation seeing as it’s not as “essential” as, say, doctors or plumbers….Of course, then there are those who think that artists don’t even deserve recognition, let alone payment, so they take away artist sources and comments, thinking that artists live off of the euphoria of drawing alone (and of course if we complain about it, we’re being selfish bitches or spoiled brats). 

Yes, recognition is amazing, but we also don’t want to work for free (unless it’s something you just REALLY want to do of course and isn’t looking to buy food with recognition coupons). There are plenty of great companies and people who hire artists, and these hired paid artists get plenty of recognition.

Also, Stephen Silver’s video on this is pretty great so take a look if you haven’t yet.


:bulletred: Please note: I don’t mean to say you shouldn't ever draw for anyone for free evar ever, but you deserve to be paid. Your art has value, and more importantly, your artistic skills have value and people should not expect it for free

This also is pretty good/funny: Should I work for free? a flow cart 

ps. Psst, here's a secret....the payout "recognition" and "exposure" is a lie 99.5% of the time. :)

Add a Comment:
 
:iconrainbowrabbit3636:
rainbowrabbit3636 Featured By Owner Apr 28, 2016
how do u make their comment on the top of your picture?
Reply
:icons-d-f-studios:
S-D-F-Studios Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2016   General Artist
Currently read this and i agree with you 100%

When i first started out here on DA, i was doing requests like crazy....but then several years later down the line, i started taking commissions; back then, my prices were dirt cheap (i think it was £5 per drawing)

First one i did was to a deviant on here-part way through the commission; he changed his mind and didn't want me to do the drawing anymore ( i was actually devastated by this).

When my mum showed my commission prices and my artwork to an old work colleague of hers (she was an artist for MTV many years ago) her words were to "increase my commission prices" when she found out how long it takes for me to draw/ink and colour in said pieces.

So now my commission prices are pretty standard for me (since i live in the UK, i go by UK National Living Wage) and i do by the hour, and not by a set price (after calculating what i was working on via set price....it turns out i was working at slavery prices).

My whole family has faith in me getting into the art industry, the last thing they want me to do is to undersell myself like i did in the past.

Anyway, this was an excellent read :clap:

 
Reply
:iconcolorfulmoongato:
Colorfulmoongato Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2015  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I've been there lol, Love all the links you've given very cool stuff.
Inspirational words too -^^-
Reply
:iconemerald-wolf13:
Emerald-Wolf13 Featured By Owner Jun 25, 2015
It is kinda funny that we live in a world where many people are indignant over the unlivable incomes of fast food workers at $8-9 an hour, but it's perfectly fine for artists to work for $2-3.  Too many budding artists get sucked into the vortex of believing recognition and exposure are required to make a living.  They do not realize there are probably ten times as many artists in some given genre than the number you actually hear about.  Take pinup art for example, outside of Elvgren, Vargas, and Sobyana (sp?) how many more can you name?

Newer artists should just put their stuff out there, and draw a clear line between "free labor of love" and paid work.  Time and word of mouth will get you recognition eventually.
Reply
:iconwilldabeast-0305:
Willdabeast-0305 Featured By Owner Feb 13, 2015  Hobbyist Writer
The buying power of the Recognition is so low, it's barely worth the paper it's printed on.
Reply
:iconuntoldpromises:
UntoldPromises Featured By Owner Feb 8, 2015  Student Digital Artist
Wonderful :)
Reply
:iconyubbi45:
yubbi45 Featured By Owner Feb 6, 2015  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
psssst, I got a 404 not found on the "because they are 'new'":link
Reply
:iconqinni:
Qinni Featured By Owner Feb 8, 2015  Professional Digital Artist
ah, the original poster seems to have deleted it. here's another reblogged version: baddaytodraw.tumblr.com/post/9…
Reply
:iconyubbi45:
yubbi45 Featured By Owner Feb 9, 2015  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
thnx
Reply
:icondeviantdanny2000:
DeviantDanny2000 Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2015  Student Digital Artist
Wow. Thank you for this. This has been on my mind lately. Your explanation is really insightful and well informative. I recently got a email asking me to draw something for the individual and he/she stated that "it will bring me exposure". At first I was flattered, but then I realize it was going to take up a lot of my free time. I am sure the person who sent me the email didn't mean any harm from the request. I think the problem lies with most people not being well inform on this topic. Artist are workers too. We provide a unique kind of entertainment and as such, we deserve to be paid for it. Especially since some Art projects are huge undertakings! I had this one project going for 2 months and finally finish it a week ago. 

That being said, I did promise the person I would work on his/her's request. But, with thanks to your information, I will charge in the future. 
Out of curiosity, how does one charge for their work in Deviant Art? Is there a "Pay Pal" or something like that? 

Thank you again for this. :)
Reply
:iconkathybellie:
KathyBellie Featured By Owner Feb 5, 2015  Professional Digital Artist
Paypal is pretty good, you could do dA points, but be careful on those as people will try to push your prices down. The dollar to point  rate is 80 points = $1.
Reply
:icondeviantdanny2000:
DeviantDanny2000 Featured By Owner Feb 6, 2015  Student Digital Artist
Thank you very much! I will definitely look into it when I am ready to start working on commissions and freelancing more professionally :)
Reply
:icondeadmaul:
DeadMaul Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2014
twitter.com/forexposure_txt (Have you seen this?)

That twitter collects series of quotes(or at least the summarize version of quotes)  by people who asked for free work from artists, writers, photographers and etc.
And there was a lot of them. Sad isn't it?
Reply
:iconrequiemsvoid:
Requiemsvoid Featured By Owner Oct 27, 2014  Professional Filmographer
With the rise of Patreon, it seems that recognition is a bit more valuable these days
and is making artists more money than simply charging per piece.

This means that the bigger your fanbase is, the more people you'll have to donate
1-5$ a week/month.

IE: www.patreon.com/doxydoo

Granted, this isn't for every artist and this sort of "income bubble" will eventually
cap off (people will get tired of hearing artists pimp their patreon").

but it's a good tool for now that'll help artists that're still trying to improve their
skills and pay the rent.
Reply
:iconqinni:
Qinni Featured By Owner Feb 13, 2015  Professional Digital Artist
ack, i missed this comment. For the most part I agree with the fanbase = more money thing, but I have to point out the sad premise of working for exposure - You don't actually get recognition from doing free work for people, unless it's maybe just fanart requests for people on dA; but full on commissions for individual people looking to do a flash game or whatever? you'll be lucky if anyone ever hears you outside of that one person you did it for. Because big companies who are well-known know better than to be cheap, and actually pay their artists well, and the artists they hire are usually veterans of the industry, so any time someone comes up to an artist to ask for free work, chances are they are nobody. Not a big name themselves nor anyone who has enough recognition themselves to give the artist any, and the artist have 1 in a million chances of whatever that project is making it big. 

You know what gets recognition on dA though? being extremely active, have really good draftsmanship, and know how to do pinups and fanart pinups. Then pump them out for max exposure. Riding on the coattails of other, greater artists and franchises do work very well :D. I should do some myself some time, actually....hahaha :lol:
Reply
:iconbegginerartist12:
begginerartist12 Featured By Owner Aug 22, 2014  Student General Artist
My thought about this is, why the hell would someone pay you to make a design for a shirt for about $40, when they will be selling hundreds of the shirt at about $20-$30 a piece? Because they're cheap bastards, they let you do all the real work, and make the thing that people actually want, and then they sell it and take the majority of the profit. What should happen is that the person who made the design charges for a commission and a percentage of the profit. I've seen a lot of comics like yours, which is great by the way, but the situation maddens me to no end, and being a person who wants to go into the art industry, I'm glad I'm learning about this now. Speaking of, my art teach spent two days (he would have loved to teach a whole course but the school wouldn't let him) teaching us about this kind of stuff.
Reply
:iconmaxerikson:
MaxErikson Featured By Owner Aug 22, 2014
As an artist, all I want is recognition. As a design student, all I want is work experience. As a graphic designer, all I want is an income.
Reply
:iconrenookami:
RenOokami Featured By Owner Aug 24, 2014  Hobbyist
As an artist, you should want to be able to live from your art. Recognition (pepole seeing your art at it's true value) is often mistaken with fame (lot of views, fans and so on) nowdays, so no matter if you're art student or self taugh, pro or still hobbyist, as human living wherever you live, you will always need to make a living.

Commission = Request + Recognition = Work experience + Income :meow:
Reply
:iconjuro-uisuko:
Juro-Uisuko Featured By Owner Jul 17, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
You're awesome
Reply
:icontribalgraces:
TribalGraces Featured By Owner Jul 10, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
This is great! I'm not a professional artist myself, but in many respects I can identify with the problem of people feeling entitled to my time, talents, and resources. That flow chart had me laughing out loud, and what's more, it was spot on.
Reply
:icongranitoons:
Granitoons Featured By Owner Jun 10, 2014  Professional Traditional Artist
I just had my pretty generous offer declined for someone who would do it for a pittance. It really does make our jobs harder when people udersell themselves.
Reply
:iconavarianguy:
AvarianGuy Featured By Owner May 25, 2014
So true.
Reply
:iconajinu-okami:
AJInu-Okami Featured By Owner May 20, 2014  Student Digital Artist
I got the book! Now time to read it ^^
Reply
:iconagoodcupoftea:
agoodcupoftea Featured By Owner Apr 27, 2014
A lot of this happens with translation, too. Esp with Asian languages. Unless you're white w/a degree. If I'm doing free translation, it better be for a family member, a friends, or on a piece of media I like. That aside, skill is valuable, and we deserve to get paid.
Reply
:icondementja:
dementja Featured By Owner Apr 26, 2014
Heh, good one. Actually same goes for each branch: recognition, experience (for experienced), whatever. Let's live off air, may we.
Reply
:iconriverotter7:
riverotter7 Featured By Owner Apr 25, 2014  Hobbyist Artisan Crafter
I know. It sucks big time when you or I or any other artist has to knock down the price on our works. I work with pyrography (wood-burning) on cherry and walnut bowls, boxes plates etc... but for what I put into it I get nowhere NEAR what I put into one and I've almost lost the love of doing it because my Partner was wanting me to "hurry up and make things for craft shows". I can't hurry up. The design is either there on the wood or it's not; and I refuse to let my "product" go for anything but what I put on it.

I have more wall space...doh  and if I arrange things carefully I can get them all up. The flow chart is hilarious!
Reply
:iconnotkiwi:
NotKiwi Featured By Owner Apr 25, 2014  Student General Artist
... this helps so much.... I was struggling with this recently. Thank you. 
Reply
:iconlittle-noko:
Little-Noko Featured By Owner Apr 25, 2014  Professional Digital Artist
I know what you mean so much ! I make art for a publishing house and it's like being exploited ! Artist spend so much hours to make something look pretty and they paid you like it was easy to do !
Reply
:iconjunkan7:
Junkan7 Featured By Owner Apr 21, 2014  Professional Interface Designer
Real talks.
Reply
:iconlisa-sciannella:
lisa-sciannella Featured By Owner Apr 18, 2014  Professional General Artist
thank you for drawing, submitting and writing that. i'm trying to be true to myself as an artist but this is the wall i keep banging my head against. just knowing someone else is there with me is comforting and hopefully efforts like this can open discussions and encourage change in culture/practice.
Reply
:iconkurikuma:
Kurikuma Featured By Owner Apr 14, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yes! I hate it when they try to push you into doing it after you say you can't/don't want to too... I always feel used to feel bad and then get convinced into drawing something for free D: Drawing was a pain back then because I wasn't drawing what I enjoyed :<
Reply
:iconalexsanlyra:
alexsanlyra Featured By Owner Apr 8, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Nice!
Reply
:iconynne-black:
ynne-black Featured By Owner Apr 7, 2014  Student General Artist
May I ask what's in the book? Not exactly - I just cannot really afford to buy it right now, but I'd consider it - does it help actually set specific prices and some sort of system how to do this, or is it all theoretical?

I totally struggle with prices but then someone from Vietnam (no offense, my best friend was Vietnamese) offers realistic portraits for 4 dollars and I wanna cry.
Reply
:iconqinni:
Qinni Featured By Owner Apr 7, 2014  Professional Digital Artist
I remember flipping through my friend's book and it basically gave a long list of parts of the industry (like animators, concept design, etc etc), what kind of artist, and how much the average pay, low pay and high pays are. This is specific, not theoretical, and there's a new version that comes out every other year or something, from what I remember :)
Reply
:iconynne-black:
ynne-black Featured By Owner Apr 9, 2014  Student General Artist
Thank you very much for this, I'm definitely considering it now :)
Reply
:icongrafight:
Grafight Featured By Owner Apr 7, 2014
I'm nothing special, yet I've managed to make a living in art for many years. I became a Graphic Designer and I have worked for many in-house art departments as well as freelance. When it was OK to do so, I would "hire myself" as an Illustrator. Other times I would hire illustrators for specific commercial projects. It is true that there is more competition now, but also more opportunities as more content than ever is created. To succeed in todays world, you need to become specialized. Find something you love and become the best at it. Create portfolios, both online and on paper. Improve daily. Use all the tools at your disposal.
Cheers!
Reply
:iconamenekohime:
AmeNekoHime Featured By Owner Apr 7, 2014  Student General Artist
In about half a year I'll have my Design Finals finished and start to work in this cruel world and in all these years I learned in this field just ONE teacher ever told us not to work for free, which I find kinda sad... a lot of them even told us we WILL have to work for low cash or nothing in the beginning to gain reputition... but seriously...

I don't get requests often but most of them wanted anything drawn for free and were offended when I told them I need the money for my life, which is why I was willing to do the work for them...
Getting comments like "It's not that hard for u is it? so do it plz" is really rude <.<
Reply
:iconsera-sognato:
sera-sognato Featured By Owner Apr 22, 2014
Yea. What gross entitled attitude.
Reply
:icontheoneandonlyplap:
TheOneandOnlyPLAP Featured By Owner Apr 6, 2014  Student General Artist
I saw this on google+ X3
Reply
:icontswordz:
TswordZ Featured By Owner Apr 6, 2014
nice comic and very true.
Reply
:iconamityvillager:
Amityvillager Featured By Owner Apr 5, 2014  Student General Artist
Amen, sister!!
Reply
:iconmchughstudios:
McHughstudios Featured By Owner Apr 4, 2014
Well-said.

When I receive offers of exposure, I am reminded that , here in New England, people die of exposure every year.
Keep up the good fight!
Reply
:icondj-uni-mekaju:
DJ-Uni-Mekaju Featured By Owner Apr 26, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
:lmao:  Nice.
Reply
:iconjie-n:
Jie-n Featured By Owner Apr 6, 2014
:lol:
That'll be my answer the next time a request like this finds it's way into my in-box.
Reply
:iconmchughstudios:
McHughstudios Featured By Owner Apr 8, 2014
:)
Reply
:icondigital-dust:
digital-dust Featured By Owner Apr 4, 2014
Nobody gives a rat's ass about me, so I draw whatever the hell I damn well please.

Especially when I'm already stressed out trying to live a double life, and drawing is almost becoming a coping mechanism.
Reply
:iconqinni:
Qinni Featured By Owner Apr 5, 2014  Professional Digital Artist
I didn't say anything about not drawing what you want so you clearly missed the point or didn't read my description.
Reply
:iconpyalicious:
Pyalicious Featured By Owner Apr 2, 2014   Digital Artist
The truth is it's not their fault they think like that. There are millions and millions of artists out there.... Everywhere. More than doctors, therapists, basically anything else, and frankly, a large number of them either do art for free, or for a super low price. That's because plenty of artists price their art properly, but it never gets bought, so they're forced to lower the price. Not to mention most artists are born artists, it's not something you learn in school, it's something you perfect, and as children, money doesn't matter as much as being appreciated for your art, basically being told "ohh that's adorable!" is enough to make a youngster draw for free, regardless of how good their art is.

But the point is, there are so many artists, of all different kinds, that it's easy for a person to refuse a high priced piece of art, in exchange for a similar quality low priced one. Non-artists don't see such a big difference between different artists.

If all artists all over raised their prices, the problem obviously would disappear, because people would be forced to pay more to get what they wanted. After all, it's only natural that you'd choose to pay less IF you had the chance.
Reply
:iconqinni:
Qinni Featured By Owner Apr 3, 2014  Professional Digital Artist
See, the problem is that people like you think it's natural for people to think that artists don't need compensation because there are so many artists out there etc, etc. No, it's not natural, it's a mindset driven by people who want things for free and artists who think that working for free will get them recognition or exposure. It's a cycle of misunderstanding for people to think that they need to work for someone in order to get better, when that's not the case at all. 
Actually, art IS something you can learn in school - you don't have to go to school necessarily to learn it, it can very much be "self-taught", but let's be honest, a large percentage of "self-taught" artists still learn from following advice given by other artists or read tutorials online or read anatomy books, etc. So it really can be taught, and even self-taught artists are being taught using those tools; I learned a LOT of stuff from art school as well as tutorials online and advice given by my peers and betters :shrug: 
It's easy for people to refuse high price, but it's just as easy for artists to refuse to sell for lower. And it's not even that people only go to people who lower their prices - there are plenty of people who go to well-known artists and writers to ask for free stuff. Look at this guy! He's a well-known, well-published writer who still gets letters from people asking for free writing~ So it's a mindset, not a natural course of "because there are so many artists and writers therefore.", cause if it's natural, then naturally people shouldn't be asking this guy's stuff for free - obviously he doesn't need the exposure or have the feeling of wanting to do stuff because someone complimented him.

If more people understand that there's a problem and try to change the problem rather than saying "oh, well, it's normal for us to be screwed over hahah", then change will more likely happen, that's all :)
Reply
:iconpyalicious:
Pyalicious Featured By Owner Apr 4, 2014   Digital Artist
Lol, yes it is natural, it could easily be a sign of intelligence. Intelligence and compassion/caring/etc aren't the same. When you have a chance to have something for cheap/free, only the caring people would choose to pay (or the rich..). This is just my opinion, feel free to not take it seriously though, i might very well be wrong. But if an animal chose either the longest or the hardest path (because yes, making money takes time and work) to something (anything, food, shelter etc), they'd be considered dumb. I don't think it's natural to think artists don't need compensation, it's natural to take advantage of what's available to you. There are artists who just do art for free, for lack of other options or other reasons, or simply for the love of doing it, and it's nevertheless their fault, not the people who take advantage of the choices available to them. (To bully an artist into thinking their art is bad and they shouldn't ask for payment is a whole other subject)
Yes, art is a skill that needs to be refined, that's what you "learn" in an art school. I didn't say you don't learn art techniques. I said you can't learn to be an artist. You must be born with the will and skill to create, and love to create art. Try taking a child who doesn't like creating art to an art school and see how he will fail to learn. Other jobs are far more open. There are artists who actually change their minds and become doctors and anything else basically, but you'll never see a young doctor in the making, become an artist.

As for the writer; Yes there are foolish people who try their luck in prying art for free like that too. Many of them are young people, who have used this technique before and it worked. And yes, it's still natural no matter how you look at it. ~It worked before, if you persevere, it'll work again~ It's the exact mindset artists use too, but used differently.

I didn't say though that it wasn't a problem, because artists end up starving like that, but it's the artist's fault at this point.
As i said, if all artists were to change and stop believing their art isn't worth anything, you'd get progress, but it won't change anytime soon.

Oh and sure.. there are simply stupid, simple minded people who will just do it all over again and will never understand how long it takes to create art, or it's importance and who will go insulting artists and such.
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